Discussion:
AKICIF: Classical Music in "School of Rock"
(too old to reply)
Nancy Lebovitz
2003-11-09 07:05:18 UTC
Permalink
What's the classical piece the kids are playing before they're introduced(?!)
to rock?

By the way, it's a delightful though incredibly stupid movie.
--
Nancy Lebovitz ***@netaxs.com www.nancybuttons.com
Now, with bumper stickers

Using your turn signal is not "giving information to the enemy"
Matthew B. Tepper
2003-11-09 08:58:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nancy Lebovitz
What's the classical piece the kids are playing before they're
introduced(?!) to rock?
No idea, but I just checked IMDB's soundtrack listing:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0332379/soundtrack

Notice that every single piece is completely identified as to creators and
performers, *except* for the one classical item.
Post by Nancy Lebovitz
By the way, it's a delightful though incredibly stupid movie.
I'm unlikely to see it, because I suspect (I admit that much) that it
carries the idea that classical music isn't good enough for kids and they
must learn to rock instead, and I think that's not such a good idea. (If
I'm wrong about this, completely or partially, please let me know.)
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Russell Watson is to opera as Velveeta™ is to aged cheddar cheese
Dale
2003-11-09 14:29:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Nancy Lebovitz
What's the classical piece the kids are playing before they're
introduced(?!) to rock?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0332379/soundtrack
Notice that every single piece is completely identified as to creators and
performers, *except* for the one classical item.
Post by Nancy Lebovitz
By the way, it's a delightful though incredibly stupid movie.
I'm unlikely to see it, because I suspect (I admit that much) that it
carries the idea that classical music isn't good enough for kids and they
must learn to rock instead, and I think that's not such a good idea. (If
I'm wrong about this, completely or partially, please let me know.)
I like Classical music and certainly think that kids should learn
about it but I think that music appreaciation classes should include
all forms of music including rock and hip-hop. It is incredibly
reactionary to censor certain types of music from a music appreaction
class just because they are popular and not performed by orchestras. I
don't like the term pop music because it is too wide and sweeping, it
implies that the political music of Bob Dylan is the same as the
vapid, pop of Britney Spears. Rock and Hip-Hop in all there forms is
the music of youth. I find it odd when young people especially
adolescents and teenagers can't find one form of rock music which
suits them.
Matthew B. Tepper
2003-11-09 19:04:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Nancy Lebovitz
What's the classical piece the kids are playing before they're
introduced(?!) to rock?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0332379/soundtrack
Notice that every single piece is completely identified as to creators
and performers, *except* for the one classical item.
Post by Nancy Lebovitz
By the way, it's a delightful though incredibly stupid movie.
I'm unlikely to see it, because I suspect (I admit that much) that it
carries the idea that classical music isn't good enough for kids and
they must learn to rock instead, and I think that's not such a good
idea. (If I'm wrong about this, completely or partially, please let me
know.)
I like Classical music and certainly think that kids should learn about
it but I think that music appreaciation classes should include all forms
of music including rock and hip-hop. It is incredibly reactionary to
censor certain types of music from a music appreaction class just because
they are popular and not performed by orchestras. I don't like the term
pop music because it is too wide and sweeping, it implies that the
political music of Bob Dylan is the same as the vapid, pop of Britney
Spears. Rock and Hip-Hop in all there forms is the music of youth. I find
it odd when young people especially adolescents and teenagers can't find
one form of rock music which suits them.
On the other hand, you can count on the mass media to give kids access to
rock and hip-hop. These same mass media pretty much ignore classical
because it's not a huge money-maker for them.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Russell Watson is to opera as Velveeta™ is to aged cheddar cheese
Dale
2003-11-10 01:01:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
On the other hand, you can count on the mass media to give kids access to
rock and hip-hop. These same mass media pretty much ignore classical
because it's not a huge money-maker for them.
You can also count on mass media to tell kids about sex but I still
think we should have sex ed in schools. Besides you are making the
typical elitist arguement that rock music is inherently intellectually
and culturally inferior to classical. Yes lots of pop music is purely
commerical but so was lots of classical in its day. Mozart wrote Eine
Kline Nacht Music just to make some cash. However the best "pop" music
powerful, political, personal and poignant. There are plenty of
reasons why Tupac Shakur, the White Stripes, Dar Williams and many
other "pop" artisits say more to young people than Bach Sonatas.
Matthew B. Tepper
2003-11-10 03:10:56 UTC
Permalink
Besides you are making the typical elitist arguement that rock music is
inherently intellectually and culturally inferior to classical.
PLONK
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Russell Watson is to opera as Velveeta™ is to aged cheddar cheese
Nate Edel
2003-11-09 19:28:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dale
I like Classical music and certainly think that kids should learn
about it but I think that music appreaciation classes should include
all forms of music including rock and hip-hop.
Thanks no. For a substantial number of kids (perhaps a minority, perhaps
not) /foo/ appreciation classes manage to spoil the subject for the kids in
question, just by the venue and because they have to memorize crap with
relation to them.

I'm not sure _what_ the right way to expose kids to music and art, but at
very least "appreciation" classes seem like the wrong way to do it.
Post by Dale
I don't like the term pop music because it is too wide and sweeping, it
implies that the political music of Bob Dylan is the same as the vapid,
pop of Britney Spears. Rock and Hip-Hop in all there forms is the music of
youth.
These days... "pop music" is simply a very broad term, pretty much beyond
usefulness, which as you said pretty much indicates anything non-orchestral
from about the last 50 years. You can certainly be more specific, and those
who care about categories can undoubtedly argue which ones Dylan and Britney
fall into.
Post by Dale
I find it odd when young people especially adolescents and teenagers can't
find one form of rock music which suits them.
I spent my first decade and a half as a classical music snob, and don't
really regret it, although I'm quite glad my tastes have broadened a lot
since then.
--
Nate Edel http://www.nkedel.com/

"But Marge! I've never felt so accepted in my life. These people looked deep
into my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
Matthew B. Tepper
2003-11-09 22:00:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nate Edel
These days... "pop music" is simply a very broad term, pretty much
beyond usefulness, which as you said pretty much indicates anything
non-orchestral from about the last 50 years.
I don't think so, Tim.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Russell Watson is to opera as Velveeta™ is to aged cheddar cheese
mike weber
2003-11-10 01:30:38 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 22:00:58 GMT, "Matthew B. Tepper"
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Nate Edel
These days... "pop music" is simply a very broad term, pretty much
beyond usefulness, which as you said pretty much indicates anything
non-orchestral from about the last 50 years.
I don't think so, Tim.
Well, anything that had a degree of popularity...
--
Who would speak truth should have one foot in the stirrup.
(Church bulletin board, Dunwoody GA)
==========================================================
mike weber <***@INVALID.electronictiger.com>
Book Reviews & More -- http://electronictiger.com
(Remove "INVALID" to reply)
Matthew B. Tepper
2003-11-10 03:10:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by mike weber
On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 22:00:58 GMT, "Matthew B. Tepper"
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Nate Edel
These days... "pop music" is simply a very broad term, pretty much
beyond usefulness, which as you said pretty much indicates anything
non-orchestral from about the last 50 years.
I don't think so, Tim.
Well, anything that had a degree of popularity...
How about Henryk Gorecki's Symphony #3, then?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Russell Watson is to opera as Velveeta™ is to aged cheddar cheese
mike weber
2003-11-10 01:30:08 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 9 Nov 2003 11:28:17 -0800, ***@sfchat.org (Nate Edel)
typed
Post by Nate Edel
Post by Dale
I like Classical music and certainly think that kids should learn
about it but I think that music appreaciation classes should include
all forms of music including rock and hip-hop.
Thanks no. For a substantial number of kids (perhaps a minority, perhaps
not) /foo/ appreciation classes manage to spoil the subject for the kids in
question, just by the venue and because they have to memorize crap with
relation to them.
Someone -- possibly Arthur Hlavaty -- once said something along the
lines of how high school English Lit courses immunise kids against
literature by inoculating them with small doses of dead authors...
--
Who would speak truth should have one foot in the stirrup.
(Church bulletin board, Dunwoody GA)
==========================================================
mike weber <***@INVALID.electronictiger.com>
Book Reviews & More -- http://electronictiger.com
(Remove "INVALID" to reply)
Nancy Lebovitz
2003-11-09 14:35:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Nancy Lebovitz
What's the classical piece the kids are playing before they're
introduced(?!) to rock?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0332379/soundtrack
Notice that every single piece is completely identified as to creators and
performers, *except* for the one classical item.
Thanks for checking.
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Nancy Lebovitz
By the way, it's a delightful though incredibly stupid movie.
I'm unlikely to see it, because I suspect (I admit that much) that it
carries the idea that classical music isn't good enough for kids and they
must learn to rock instead, and I think that's not such a good idea. (If
I'm wrong about this, completely or partially, please let me know.)
No, you called it. The underlying premise is that there's no passion
in anything about (upper?) middle class life, and an infusion of rock
music is exactly what's needed.
--
Nancy Lebovitz ***@netaxs.com www.nancybuttons.com
Now, with bumper stickers

Using your turn signal is not "giving information to the enemy"
Matthew B. Tepper
2003-11-09 19:04:45 UTC
Permalink
***@unix5.netaxs.com (Nancy Lebovitz) appears to have caused the
following letters to be typed in news:5hsrb.436$Ob3.462488
Post by Nancy Lebovitz
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Nancy Lebovitz
What's the classical piece the kids are playing before they're
introduced(?!) to rock?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0332379/soundtrack
Notice that every single piece is completely identified as to creators
and performers, *except* for the one classical item.
Thanks for checking.
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Nancy Lebovitz
By the way, it's a delightful though incredibly stupid movie.
I'm unlikely to see it, because I suspect (I admit that much) that it
carries the idea that classical music isn't good enough for kids and they
must learn to rock instead, and I think that's not such a good idea. (If
I'm wrong about this, completely or partially, please let me know.)
No, you called it. The underlying premise is that there's no passion
in anything about (upper?) middle class life, and an infusion of rock
music is exactly what's needed.
Thanks, and how sad that the old prejudice is stirred up yet once more. In
that case, I'm unlikely to get much out of it.

On the other hand, I did very much enjoy two rock-themed movies of a few
years ago: "Almost Famous" and "High Fidelity" (which latter also had Jack
Black in it).
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Russell Watson is to opera as Velveeta™ is to aged cheddar cheese
Vlatko Juric-Kokic
2003-11-10 00:29:27 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:04:45 GMT, "Matthew B. Tepper"
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Nancy Lebovitz
No, you called it. The underlying premise is that there's no passion
in anything about (upper?) middle class life, and an infusion of rock
music is exactly what's needed.
Thanks, and how sad that the old prejudice is stirred up yet once more.
Well, taking into consideration how true Nate's statement is, that
"appreciation" classes are hand-made to kill any enjoyment in the
classical music, I don't think that the premise of the film is *that*
stupid.

But again, we've passed a long way from the Fifties. I heard a couple
of crooner songs from the Fifties the other day on the radio. Man, how
vapid and empty are those songs, down there on the level of Britney
Spears.
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
On the other hand, I did very much enjoy two rock-themed movies of a few
years ago: "Almost Famous" and "High Fidelity"
I wouldn't call _High Fidelity_ a rock-themed film.

vlatko
--
http://www.niribanimeso.org/eng/
http://www.michaelswanwick.com/
vlatko.juric-***@zg.hinet.hr
Matthew B. Tepper
2003-11-10 03:10:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vlatko Juric-Kokic
On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:04:45 GMT, "Matthew B. Tepper"
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Post by Nancy Lebovitz
No, you called it. The underlying premise is that there's no passion
in anything about (upper?) middle class life, and an infusion of rock
music is exactly what's needed.
Thanks, and how sad that the old prejudice is stirred up yet once more.
Well, taking into consideration how true Nate's statement is, that
"appreciation" classes are hand-made to kill any enjoyment in the
classical music, I don't think that the premise of the film is *that*
stupid.
But again, we've passed a long way from the Fifties. I heard a couple
of crooner songs from the Fifties the other day on the radio. Man, how
vapid and empty are those songs, down there on the level of Britney
Spears.
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
On the other hand, I did very much enjoy two rock-themed movies of a few
years ago: "Almost Famous" and "High Fidelity"
I wouldn't call _High Fidelity_ a rock-themed film.
Why not?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Russell Watson is to opera as Velveeta™ is to aged cheddar cheese
David G. Bell
2003-11-09 22:28:20 UTC
Permalink
On Sunday, in article
Post by Nancy Lebovitz
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
I'm unlikely to see it, because I suspect (I admit that much) that it
carries the idea that classical music isn't good enough for kids and they
must learn to rock instead, and I think that's not such a good idea. (If
I'm wrong about this, completely or partially, please let me know.)
No, you called it. The underlying premise is that there's no passion
in anything about (upper?) middle class life, and an infusion of rock
music is exactly what's needed.
A few weeks ago, the BBC transmitted a drama-documentary on the first
performance of Beethoven's Eroica. The similarity between that and the
appearance of, for instance, "Rock Around The Clock" in the record
stores, is suggestive. Not, perhaps, no passion, but music could never
be the same again.

Remember, Beethoven was a revolutionary, and the "All men are brothers"
of the Ninth was as shocking in its time as Eminem is now.
--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"History shows that the Singularity started when Tim Berners-Lee
was bitten by a radioactive spider."
mike weber
2003-11-10 01:32:37 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 14:35:45 GMT, ***@unix5.netaxs.com (Nancy
Lebovitz) typed
Post by Nancy Lebovitz
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
I'm unlikely to see it, because I suspect (I admit that much) that it
carries the idea that classical music isn't good enough for kids and they
must learn to rock instead, and I think that's not such a good idea. (If
I'm wrong about this, completely or partially, please let me know.)
No, you called it. The underlying premise is that there's no passion
in anything about (upper?) middle class life, and an infusion of rock
music is exactly what's needed.
Not necessarily untrue, so long as the further implication that it's
what's needed *instead* of anything else isn't present.
--
Who would speak truth should have one foot in the stirrup.
(Church bulletin board, Dunwoody GA)
==========================================================
mike weber <***@INVALID.electronictiger.com>
Book Reviews & More -- http://electronictiger.com
(Remove "INVALID" to reply)
Matthew B. Tepper
2003-11-10 03:10:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by mike weber
Lebovitz) typed
Post by Nancy Lebovitz
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
I'm unlikely to see it, because I suspect (I admit that much) that it
carries the idea that classical music isn't good enough for kids and
they must learn to rock instead, and I think that's not such a good
idea. (If I'm wrong about this, completely or partially, please let me
know.)
No, you called it. The underlying premise is that there's no passion
in anything about (upper?) middle class life, and an infusion of rock
music is exactly what's needed.
Not necessarily untrue, so long as the further implication that it's
what's needed *instead* of anything else isn't present.
Further probe question: Are the kids told, "Play this in addition to what
you've been playing," or "Play this instead of what you've been playing"?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Russell Watson is to opera as Velveeta™ is to aged cheddar cheese
mike weber
2003-11-10 01:27:13 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 08:58:57 GMT, "Matthew B. Tepper"
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Notice that every single piece is completely identified as to creators and
performers, *except* for the one classical item.
I'd guess tht there is apretty good probability that the only reason
that the other music is so identified is due to contractual
provisions; often classical music in films get similar credits -- viz
"2001" and "Clockwork Orange".

I believe that there are copyright-free recordings of a lot of PD
music, or the producers may have used an orchestra under contract to
the studio or production company, in which there might be a credit
like "Music recorded by <blank> Orchestra." covering all PD and
original orchestral pieces. while other pieces not written
for/recorded for the film would require more complex credits,
--
Who would speak truth should have one foot in the stirrup.
(Church bulletin board, Dunwoody GA)
==========================================================
mike weber <***@INVALID.electronictiger.com>
Book Reviews & More -- http://electronictiger.com
(Remove "INVALID" to reply)
Matthew B. Tepper
2003-11-10 03:10:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by mike weber
On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 08:58:57 GMT, "Matthew B. Tepper"
Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Notice that every single piece is completely identified as to creators
and performers, *except* for the one classical item.
I'd guess tht there is apretty good probability that the only reason that
the other music is so identified is due to contractual provisions; often
classical music in films get similar credits -- viz "2001" and "Clockwork
Orange".
Even if that's the case, couldn't they have *voluntarily* named performers
for the Rodrigo work? Not doing so sends, perhaps, a subtle messages that
it doesn't matter; any performance is as good as another because after all,
isn't it the same notes being played?
Post by mike weber
I believe that there are copyright-free recordings of a lot of PD music,
or the producers may have used an orchestra under contract to the studio
or production company, in which there might be a credit like "Music
recorded by <blank> Orchestra." covering all PD and original orchestral
pieces. while other pieces not written for/recorded for the film would
require more complex credits,
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Russell Watson is to opera as Velveeta™ is to aged cheddar cheese
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