Discussion:
Best Related Work Hugo
(too old to reply)
Keith F. Lynch
2020-08-01 02:53:15 UTC
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Last year I posted:

Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2019 19:32:47 +0000 (UTC)
From: "Keith F. Lynch" <***@KeithLynch.net>
Subject: "Joseph [sic] Campbell is a <f-word> fascist"

Jeannette Ng, a Chinese/British author used her John Campbell award
acceptance speech to denounce John Campbell.

Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2019 19:58:34 +0000 (UTC)
From: "Keith F. Lynch" <***@KeithLynch.net>
Subject: Re: "Joseph [sic] Campbell is a <f-word> fascist"
Freudian slip in the subject line?
If so, not mine. She definitely said "Joseph Campbell." Her
criticism made it clear she was indeed speaking of John W. Campbell,
the man for whom the award was named.

It would have been classier to simply refuse the nomination in the
first place.

Today, Jeannette Ng won the Best Related Work Hugo for that angry and
boorish rant. Her acceptance speech consisted of another such rant.

In related news, the Campbell Award has been renamed the Astounding
Award.

The Hugo, Astounding, and Lodestar winners can be found at
http://www.thehugoawards.org/

The livestream had some glitches, but on the whole it worked well.
The ceremony lasted nearly 3.5 hours.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
Gary McGath
2020-08-01 09:38:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keith F. Lynch
Today, Jeannette Ng won the Best Related Work Hugo for that angry and
boorish rant. Her acceptance speech consisted of another such rant.
In related news, the Campbell Award has been renamed the Astounding
Award.
The Hugo, Astounding, and Lodestar winners can be found at
http://www.thehugoawards.org/
The livestream had some glitches, but on the whole it worked well.
The ceremony lasted nearly 3.5 hours.
I enjoyed GRRM's accounts of the history of the awards. After an hour,
though, I decided to wait till morning to find out the results. My
Internet connection was having trouble, though it's fine so far this
morning.

Congratulations to all the winners, including the ones whose acceptance
speeches consisted mainly of complaints.
--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com
The Magic Battery: A tale of magic and change in Reformation Germany
https://garymcgath.com/TMB
Peter Trei
2020-08-01 20:42:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary McGath
Post by Keith F. Lynch
Today, Jeannette Ng won the Best Related Work Hugo for that angry and
boorish rant. Her acceptance speech consisted of another such rant.
In related news, the Campbell Award has been renamed the Astounding
Award.
The Hugo, Astounding, and Lodestar winners can be found at
http://www.thehugoawards.org/
The livestream had some glitches, but on the whole it worked well.
The ceremony lasted nearly 3.5 hours.
I enjoyed GRRM's accounts of the history of the awards. After an hour,
though, I decided to wait till morning to find out the results. My
Internet connection was having trouble, though it's fine so far this
morning.
Congratulations to all the winners, including the ones whose acceptance
speeches consisted mainly of complaints.
What surprised me was the poor turnout. The video feed had a viewer count
at the top left. I started about an hour in, when it was 600 odd. By the Best
Novel it had barely tipped over 1000. Anyone know what registration was?

Pt
Scott Dorsey
2020-08-01 21:10:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Trei
What surprised me was the poor turnout. The video feed had a viewer count
at the top left. I started about an hour in, when it was 600 odd. By the Best
Novel it had barely tipped over 1000. Anyone know what registration was?
There were three feeds, and I think the viewer count was for the feed you
were watching. However, even with all three together I don't think it went
much over 2,000 which is very disappointing.

Then again, perhaps it is good that we have the Rabid Puppies behind us and
the huge crowds drawn in by them.

I didn't vote for Ms. Ng for best related work, but I can understand why it
was put there. Even if you don't agree with her, you have to give her credit
for drama. I somewhat agree with her but I think she should learn the
difference between fascism and imperialism and also learn some of Campbell's
tradition of deliberately advocating ludicrous positions in order to get
people to think.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Gary McGath
2020-08-01 23:50:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Dorsey
I didn't vote for Ms. Ng for best related work, but I can understand why it
was put there. Even if you don't agree with her, you have to give her credit
for drama. I somewhat agree with her but I think she should learn the
difference between fascism and imperialism and also learn some of Campbell's
tradition of deliberately advocating ludicrous positions in order to get
people to think.
I get the impression that some people are in the process of cancelling
GRRM. Was his sin saying good things about Asimov and Campbell, or
something else? I didn't watch the whole thing.
--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com
The Magic Battery: A tale of magic and change in Reformation Germany
https://garymcgath.com/TMB
Scott Dorsey
2020-08-02 00:00:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary McGath
Post by Scott Dorsey
I didn't vote for Ms. Ng for best related work, but I can understand why it
was put there. Even if you don't agree with her, you have to give her credit
for drama. I somewhat agree with her but I think she should learn the
difference between fascism and imperialism and also learn some of Campbell's
tradition of deliberately advocating ludicrous positions in order to get
people to think.
I get the impression that some people are in the process of cancelling
GRRM. Was his sin saying good things about Asimov and Campbell, or
something else? I didn't watch the whole thing.
I have no idea. Perhaps people are just upset about him spending all his
time talking about the history of the award when that history is very much
centered on old white guys. Some people just want to close their eyes to
history when it is not pleasant.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-08-02 14:37:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary McGath
I get the impression that some people are in the process of cancelling
GRRM. Was his sin saying good things about Asimov and Campbell, or
something else? I didn't watch the whole thing.
"Cancelling" him? I don't suppose you mean hiring a hitman to
get rid of him; do you mean ceasing to read him?

I did that midway through the first volume of _GoT_. Someone had
lent it to me, and I read through it; he's a skilled writer and
great at characterization, so I went on turning pages until there
was either a telephone call or a knock on the door, I forget
which. After that, I closed the book and never opened it again.
As all here know, I don't do grimth, and Martin does brilliantly
realized, three-dimensional characters and then kills them
horribly, one by one.

I didn't throw the book against the wall; it didn't belong to me.
But I gave it back to the lender.

"That day we read no further." --Dante
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Gary McGath
2020-08-02 16:05:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by Gary McGath
I get the impression that some people are in the process of cancelling
GRRM. Was his sin saying good things about Asimov and Campbell, or
something else? I didn't watch the whole thing.
That wasn't Scott. That was me. By "cancelling," I meant regarding him
as a person unfit for fannish society.
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
"Cancelling" him? I don't suppose you mean hiring a hitman to
get rid of him; do you mean ceasing to read him?
I did that midway through the first volume of _GoT_. Someone had
lent it to me, and I read through it; he's a skilled writer and
great at characterization, so I went on turning pages until there
was either a telephone call or a knock on the door, I forget
which. After that, I closed the book and never opened it again.
As all here know, I don't do grimth, and Martin does brilliantly
realized, three-dimensional characters and then kills them
horribly, one by one.
I made it through the whole book, but I found it too depressing to
continue with the subsequent books. I haven't watched the TV show
either, but then, I watch very little TV.
--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com
The Magic Battery: A tale of magic and change in Reformation Germany
https://garymcgath.com/TMB
Keith F. Lynch
2020-08-02 18:26:54 UTC
Permalink
Perhaps people are just upset about him spending all his time
talking about the history of the award when that history is very
much centered on old white guys.
A woman first won a Hugo award 60 years ago. It's difficult to tell
when the first POC won one, since, quite reasonably, fandom has always
been pretty much colorblind. As is publishing in general, since
writers submit manuscripts. They don't typically have in-person
interviews, or attach their photos to their manuscripts.

As for age, the early winners are old *now*, since that's how time
works. But many of them were quite young at the time. I'm not going
to take the effort to find the younges Hugo winner ever, but the
youngest who won at the first Hugo award ceremony, in 1953, was 28.
Some people just want to close their eyes to history when it is not
pleasant.
Do you also find the moon landings unpleasant? All 12 people who
walked on the moon were white guys. The six who are still living
are now all old white guys.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
eleeper@optonline.net
2020-08-02 07:03:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gary McGath
Post by Scott Dorsey
I didn't vote for Ms. Ng for best related work, but I can understand why it
was put there. Even if you don't agree with her, you have to give her credit
for drama. I somewhat agree with her but I think she should learn the
difference between fascism and imperialism and also learn some of Campbell's
tradition of deliberately advocating ludicrous positions in order to get
people to think.
I get the impression that some people are in the process of cancelling
GRRM. Was his sin saying good things about Asimov and Campbell, or
something else? I didn't watch the whole thing.
That was part of it, but making the ceremony almost four hours long was right up there. That also explains why the attendance may have been so low by the end. Many people said they gave up (e.g.) an hour in when it was clear they would have to stay up until 4AM to hear all the results. And he also mispronounced several finalists' names, which annoyed many people, including the finalists themselves, who had provided phonetic pronunciations at ConZealand's request.

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
Gary McGath
2020-08-02 09:48:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@optonline.net
Post by Gary McGath
I get the impression that some people are in the process of cancelling
GRRM. Was his sin saying good things about Asimov and Campbell, or
something else? I didn't watch the whole thing.
That was part of it, but making the ceremony almost four hours long was right up there. That also explains why the attendance may have been so low by the end. Many people said they gave up (e.g.) an hour in when it was clear they would have to stay up until 4AM to hear all the results. And he also mispronounced several finalists' names, which annoyed many people, including the finalists themselves, who had provided phonetic pronunciations at ConZealand's request.
Award ceremonies are always tediously slow. It's a tradition. Since
there wasn't a hall full of people to share the tedium, I suppose he
felt obligated to provide it all himself.

I can definitely relate to frustration at having names mispronounced. It
infuriates me every time someone pronounces my name "McGrath," though I
try not to let it show.
--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com
The Magic Battery: A tale of magic and change in Reformation Germany
https://garymcgath.com/TMB
Andy Leighton
2020-08-02 11:46:38 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 2 Aug 2020 05:48:02 -0400,
Post by Gary McGath
Post by ***@optonline.net
Post by Gary McGath
I get the impression that some people are in the process of cancelling
GRRM. Was his sin saying good things about Asimov and Campbell, or
something else? I didn't watch the whole thing.
That was part of it, but making the ceremony almost four hours long was right up there. That also explains why the attendance may have been so low by the end. Many people said they gave up (e.g.) an hour in when it was clear they would have to stay up until 4AM to hear all the results. And he also mispronounced several finalists' names, which annoyed many people, including the finalists themselves, who had provided phonetic pronunciations at ConZealand's request.
Award ceremonies are always tediously slow. It's a tradition.
Not at all. 2005 (the only Hugo ceremony I've been to) was only around
90 mins. If the ceremony was aimed at that kind of length I think more
people would be happier. Apparently earlier in the week it had a 2 hour
slot which was extended.
--
Andy Leighton => ***@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams
Scott Dorsey
2020-08-02 12:04:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Leighton
On Sun, 2 Aug 2020 05:48:02 -0400,
Post by Gary McGath
Award ceremonies are always tediously slow. It's a tradition.
Not at all. 2005 (the only Hugo ceremony I've been to) was only around
90 mins. If the ceremony was aimed at that kind of length I think more
people would be happier. Apparently earlier in the week it had a 2 hour
slot which was extended.
I think it's false to blame GRRM for the long running time and the slow pace.
With the way it was assembled from both live and prerecorded segments,
the director could have sped things up at any point by dropping or curtating
some of the material as needed.

My guess is that with the sheer number of live feeds required, the thing was
deliberately padded out because the people dealing with the incoming feeds
were working like one-armed paperhangers to get everything cued up and ready
in time to go on, and the director figured it was better to have too much
padding rather than too little.

Remember the crew doesn't know who won until the last minute either, so
everybody nominated either needs to have a prerecorded acceptance speech or
needs to be up and ready on a video connection so they can be dropped into
place if they win. The situation in the control booth is an order of
magnitude more frantic than at a normal awards ceremony.

I wasn't backstage for this one but I'm sure we'll hear soon enough from
the people who were. There were some obvious miscues and errors but there
were also a couple truly brilliant saves.

I also think it is sad that nobody ever mentioned that the first remote video
presentation at Worldcon was conducted by Arthur C. Clarke from a studio in
Sri Lanka over two satellite hops and a lot of patch cables.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Paul Dormer
2020-08-02 13:42:00